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DeVry University

United States

Consumer complaints and reviews about DeVry University

awallace04 Send email
 
Jan 11, 2017

No Job in field with MPA degree

I graduated with a Masters in Public Administration specialization Healthcare in 2014. I haven’t got a job in the field. I tried to go through the Devry career portal and still no luck. I feel like I wasted a lot of time with this school and making the same pay a person with no degree.
Jalugo85 Send email
 
Dec 16, 2016

DEVRY SCAM

Graduated in 2012, haven't got a job in Accounting yet, I've never even broke the pay scale they told me I would be making after I graduated. I was supposed to have 36k in loans by actually have 65k. What a waste!
Vigs68 Send email
 
Oct 28, 2016

Student lawsuit has been filed.

NEW YORK, Oct. 17, 2016 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- Gainey McKenna & Egleston and Wolf Haldenstein Alder Freeman & Hertz LLC announce that a class action lawsuit has been filed against DeVry Education Group, Inc. (NYSE:DV), DeVry University, Inc. and DeVry/New York Inc. (collectively, “DeVry”) in United States District Court for the Northern District of Illinois, on behalf of all persons in the United States who obtained a degree from DeVry and did not find a job in their field of study within six months of graduation.

The Complaint alleges that one of DeVry’s key messages to prospective students was that obtaining a DeVry degree is highly likely to result in obtaining a desirable job soon after graduation in that student’s chosen field of study. The Complaint alleges that for many years, one of the primary methods by which DeVry conveyed this message was through a representation to students that 90% of DeVry graduates who were actively seeking employment obtained new jobs in their field of study within six months of graduation. The Complaint further alleges that the actual percentage of DeVry graduates who, within six months of the time that time they graduated, could reasonably be considered to be employed “in their field” was and is markedly below 90%.

If you wish to join the litigation, or to discuss your rights or interests regarding this class action, please contact Thomas J. McKenna, Esq. or Gregory M. Egleston, Esq. of Gainey McKenna & Egleston at (212) 983-1300, or via e-mail at tjmckenna@gme-law.com or gegleston@gme-law.com or Carl Malmstrom, Esq. of Wolf Haldenstein Alder Freeman & Hertz LLC at (312) 984-0000, or via e-mail at malmstrom@whafh.com.

This notice may be considered Attorney Advertising in some jurisdictions. Also please note that prior positive results achieved by the law firms involved in this action does not guarantee a similar outcome with respect to this action.
JAMES95 Send email
 
Sep 23, 2016

James

When I went to DEVRY University in 2003 and went there thinking I would get a job. I did graduate in 2007. My mom died a month after started school. They had times i felt because of my Special Needs they sometimes I felt stupid and retarded because I don't fast like every student who get the part time jobs and internships. People who average less than 2.50 get treated like trash like me. I do think they should be closed down immediately. If people like me who can't jobs and i talk to my private loans lenders my financial situations they never about me. I cannot get my transcripts. I not only feel that should block not me getting my transcripts. I also feel that should be closed down for good and, they should cancel students private loans and if possible federal loans. They be given grants only. There had been indirectly being compared to other people because they 100 times than me. It makes me feel retarded and stupid and I got more frustrated and angry at them and myself.
KFrenzel Send email
 
Jun 30, 2016

STAY FAR AWAY FROM DEVRY!!

I began attending Devry in 2011. When I spoke to the admissions rep, I told her that my ultimate goal was to go to law school. She said that was not a problem. I just needed a Bachelors Degree, it could be in basket weaving, but needed a Bachelors degree in something. I researched a lot of law schools and they all preferred not to have a criminal justice background but a Bachelors was required (didnt matter the subject). I, in turn, began classes for Management with a concentration in Accounting. During my whole time there, I was always asking if I was on the right track and was told yes. I was told that if I got good grades, I could get into almost any law school. BOY WAS THAT A LIE! I graduated 3 years later (2014). I was told that after I received my degree, that I would not have any problem finding a job and that I would make more money than someone with a degree from one of the local colleges or universities. I have spent the last 2 years looking for a job! The jobs that I could get were going to pay me the same as someone else walking in off of the street without a degree (generally, about $10 p/h). I decided last month that since I could not find a job, I would go ahead and go to law school. WELL, that has not happened either. After speaking with 3 different law schools, none of them would accept a degree of any type from DeVry! I have $65k+ in student loans (maxed out for undergrad) and used all of my PELL Grant in the 3 years at DeVry so I have no financial aid left to use. I now have to go to another university AND pay for another Bachelors Degree before I can go to law school! My husband and I only have one income so needless to say, I am trying to figure out how I am going to accomplish this. Especially since my student loans are in repayment at $489 per month! I have recently been able to put them in forebearance but the interest is still accruing so the debt is getting bigger and bigger! We will manage, and I will get my degree from a REAL university and it will take me another 2 years. I cannot get private loans (and at this point dont know if I want to). DeVry is a scam and are frauds and I would advise EVERYONE to stay away from them! My husband was also a student there and maxed all of his stuff out in less than 2 years so he is $57k in student loans and has also maxed out his PELL and he did not even finish his degree!!
I am going to look into the class action lawsuit against DeVry but am very leery of anything that has to do with them at this point. They are slick and they try to cover their butts so I dont know what success a lawsuit will have. If anyone knows of an attorney that has been successful with any lawsuits against DeVry, please let me know.
cdavila3 Send email
 
Mar 30, 2016

Fraud

I began school at DeVry University in 2008. I was newly married with 3 children and chose to use my time as a stay at home mom to get a degree. I used DeVry online because it was flexible and I was not able to step foot in a classroom. I was told to go for my Associates Degree first and then continue on for my Bachelors. I finished my Associates in Accounting Technology in 2012...yes it took me 4 years because my advisors told me that's all I could afford...in 2013 I decided to go back and work towards my Bachelors. I got through 1 semester and when I called back to register for my next session...guess what???? Oh.. I was out of money from FAFSA and my grants. Mind you I had grants from DeVry for being on the deans list and graduating with honors for my Associates Degree. You CANNOT and I repeat CANNOT get a good paying job or even an ok paying job with just an Associates Degree....its like only having a high school diploma. Continuing on...I wanted to finish my degree but have been unable to since the whole entire time I was attending DeVry they were taking money from me and I now have a debt of $69,450 for an Associates Degree...I could have a doctorate for that much money and I simply have an Associates and a little over half of my Bachelors Degree. All I want is to finish school and get a degree to provide for my family. I work at a school making $17,000 a year and cant even afford to make a payment on my student loans. It is horrible that this school is able to ruin peoples lives just for the sake of becoming rich. This "College" is a SCAM, CHEAT, UNRELIABLE, heap of CRAP!!!! I just want my Bachelors Degree and to only be charged the amount of money for the degree I have.
lgeither Send email
 
Mar 7, 2016

CPA Exam Eligibility

I went back to school in 2008 to DeVry because of the accelerated class schedule so that I could get my Bachelor's Degree in Business with an emphasis in Accounting. The sole purpose of me going back to school was so that I could become a CPA. In 2009 the CPA exam requirements were changed. Instead of needing 120 credits to sit for the exam you needed 150 credits to be able to sit for the exam. I decided since all I wanted was to become a CPA I would go ahead and continue on with my Master's degree in Accounting and Financial Management so that I could sit for the exam. I graduated with my Maters's degree in 2013. Through all of my Bachelor's program and my Master's program I continually asked my Academic Counselor if I was on the right track and taking everything I need to so that I could take the CPA exam. I was told repeatedly that I was taking all the correct courses. I finally had the time to go ahead and sit for the CPA exam so I applied with my state. I paid for the application fee, the first exam, all of my transcripts to be sent to them, a new book to study from, and I had to pay to have a picture taken of me to send to the Board. After all of the schooling, thousands of dollars in debt, and the new expenses I incurred I was told I was ineligible to take the CPA exam. The Board said I was missing credits so I didn't have the 150 I needed to sit for the exam. Some of the classes they said I was missing DeVry/Keller doesn't even offer.

Has this situation happened to anyone else?
nakaym Send email
 
Nov 3, 2015

Out standing balance

I have an outstanding balance with this horrific place and keep getting billed for it i will not pay that "Collage" a penny of my money cause of what they did what do i need to do to make that balance go away it is unfair.
Michelle m Send email
 
Aug 14, 2015

i feel sucker punched

I went for two seminars when i started getting bills. I couldn't get anyone to return my calls i mostly took online because i live so far from their campus. It took them 2 semesters to tell me they were not excepting any of my credits transfer from another school. So I was starting all over. If they except those credits I only needed a few classes. When i signed up they said we will transfer all of them. So now i owe 13,000. Student loan and I received pell grant. Plus they are sending me bills for another 1300. My loan went into default because they had the wrong address and number. I have not move or change my number. And it was right when i was attending.
kgirl Send email
 
Apr 14, 2015

crooks took all my money

I went to devry for about 3 semesters, I had plenty of monies available, they took all my money, and said that I don't have any money left. I went to another school and had some monies left. They lied, they manipulated me into registering, just crooks that is all I can say. No degree, NO money left I'm tired of crooked companies.
User925905 Send email
 
Mar 31, 2012

Education Scam

DeVry’s motto > You can tailor your DeVry University experience to meet the demands of your schedule. Your education is an investment. We help you prepare for the real challenges you'll face in the workplace by bringing the real world into the classroom. Enjoy the confidence that comes from earning your degree from a reputable university that's respected by top employers. That means at DeVry University, you'll earn more than a degree. You'll receive a career education that can lead to career success.
> The only thing you have to remember is that your success is not happening in this lifetime but you will have the burden of government loan debts forever for investing your education in DeVry. The fat cats have to get rich off all the ignorant students who don’t know any better.
User925905 Send email
 
Mar 31, 2012

Education Scam

I sued and they tried to settle. I am trying to upload a copy of the settlement. This school is a fraud and they have been exposed. There is a class action being started send your information to make sure you have evidence of what you were told like emails. Go to help.devry.edu to print them/.

Here is a copy of the settlement documents, .

SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT AND GENERAL RELEASE

This Settlement Agreement and Release (the “Agreement”) is entered into between DeVry University, Inc". (“DeVry”), and Plaintiff

Incorporation of Recitals, . The recitals set forth in the Background section above are incorporated in the body of this Agreement as if fully set forth herein:.

2, . Monetary Consideration|. Upon the later of (a) receipt of this Agreement signed by all parties and (b) notice that Plaintiff has dismissed the Complaint with prejudice, DeVry shall forgive the outstanding balance on Plaintiff's account with DeVry and shall not seek payment of the outstanding balance on this account from Ellis; provided that if Plaintiff ever re-enrolls at DeVry or another institution owned or operated by DeVry Inc., the balance on his account resulting from Plaintiff's attendance at DeVry at any time prior to his execution of this Agreement shall become immediately due and payable.

3. As an element of, and in order to induce DeVry to enter into, this settlement, Plaintiff and his heirs, representatives and assigns, do hereby absolutely and unconditionally forever release, discharge and acquit DeVry and its parents, subsidiaries, affiliates, officers, directors, partners, members, stockholders, employees, agents, attorneys, successors and assigns, of and from any and all claims, demands, obligations, liabilities, indebtedness, breaches of contract, breaches of duty or any relationship, acts, omissions, misfeasance, malfeasance, cause or causes of action, debts, sums of money, accounts, compensation, contracts, controversies, promises, damages, costs, losses and expenses, of every type, kind, nature, description or character, and irrespective of how, why, or by reason of what facts, whether heretofore or now existing, of whatever kind or name, whether known or unknown, suspected or unsuspected, liquidated or unliquidated, arising from any time leading up to and including the date which this Agreement is signed by him; provided however, that Plaintiff does not release and expressly preserves the right to enforce his rights under this Agreement and to compel performance and satisfaction by DeVry of its obligations hereunder.

4. No Admission of Liability. The execution of this Agreement shall not be deemed or construed as an admission of liability by DeVry, and DeVry expressly denies liability of any nature whatsoever arising from or related to the subject of the Agreement.

5. Confidentiality; Public Statements. The parties agree that both the existence of the Agreement and the terms contained in this Agreement are confidential and shall not be disclosed to any third parties, except that the parties may disclose the foregoing (a) to the extent required by legal process, court order, or applicable law, rule or regulation, (b) to their respective attorneys, accountants, auditors or financial advisors, and boards of directors, and to governmental bodies to the extent necessary to comply with any applicable tax or financial reporting laws, rules or regulations, and (c) in the event of a breach to allow the non-breaching party to enforce his, her, or its rights under the Agreement in the courts in the Chicago metropolitan area. In the event of any inquiries by any third party concerning the status or resolution of the Complaint, no information shall be disclosed other than that such matters have been “resolved.”

6. Non-Disparagement. Plaintiff agrees to refrain from any communications with third parties, written or oral, that could reasonably be considered to constitute disparagement of DeVry.

7. Non-Cooperation and Non-Solicitation. Plaintiff agrees that he will not assist any attorneys or their clients in the presentation or prosecution of any disputes, differences, grievances, claims, charges, or complaints by any third party against DeVry, unless compelled by lawful subpoena or court order. Plaintiff further agrees that he will not solicit or encourage any third party to present or prosecute any disputes, differences, grievances, claims, charges, or complaints against DeVry.

8. Understanding of the Parties. (a) This Agreement constitutes the entire understanding between the parties and supercedes all prior agreements, agreements in principle, and written or oral communications with respect to the resolution of the Complaint. (b) This Agreement may not be modified, amended or terminated, except by a written agreement which is signed by each of the parties hereto. (c) Each party represents and warrants (i) that he or it has had the opportunity to obtain independent advice from counsel of its choosing in negotiations for and the execution of the Agreement, (ii) that he or it has read the Agreement or have had the same read to them by his or its counsel, and (iii) that he or it is fully aware of its contents and legal effect.

9. Authority. Each person executing this Agreement represents and warrants that such person is lawfully authorized and empowered to execute the same as an individual or on behalf of the entity on whose behalf such person is signing, and that upon such execution this Agreement will be binding on such entity without any further approval, ratification, or other action.

10. Binding on Successors and Assigns. Neither this Agreement nor any interest hereunder may be assigned by any party without the prior written consent of all other parties to this Agreement. This Agreement shall be binding upon the parties and their respective successors, permitted assigns, heirs, and executors notwithstanding any reorganization, merger, or consolidation of any party hereto.

11. Severability. The parties agree that, if any term or provision of this Agreement is found to be invalid or unenforceable for any reason, then the invalid or unenforceable term or provision shall be severed so as to make the Agreement enforceable to the fullest extent permissible under applicable law.

12. Further Assurances. The parties agree to execute any additional documents to do all other acts reasonably required to effect the intent and purposes of this Agreement. 13. Applicable Law. This Agreement shall be governed and construed in accordance with the laws of the State of Illinois, irrespective of its conflict of law rules.

14. Headings. The paragraph headings contained herein are for convenience only and are not intended to add or subtract from the text hereof.

15. No Third Party Beneficiaries. Nothing contained herein is intended to confer any rights on any person or entity other than the parties hereto. No third party beneficiary rights shall be conferred on any party by virtue of this Agreement or any term or provision hereof.

16. Counterparts. This Agreement may be executed in more than one counterpart, each of which shall be deemed to be an original and all of which, taken together, shall constitute one agreement binding on all parties.

17. Court Jurisdiction. The parties agree that in the event of a breach of this Agreement, the party seeking enforcement shall be entitled to specific performance in a court in the metropolitan area of Chicago, Illinois and the prevailing party shall be entitled to an award of its costs and attorney fees in connection with such application. The parties submit to the jurisdiction of the courts in the metropolitan area of Chicago, Illinois, to resolve any disputes arising from, or relating to, this Agreement.

18. Agreement as Evidence. Nothing in this Agreement shall prohibit a party from offering the Agreement as evidence in a legal, administrative, or quasi-judicial proceeding involving a claim released herein.

19. This Agreement shall be construed as a whole and not for or against any party.

20. Any notice desired or required to be given hereunder shall, unless otherwise specified, be sufficient if in writing and personally delivered or sent by certified mail, return receipt requested, as follows:

If to DeVry, to:

Laura Sitarski

DeVry Inc.

3005 Highland Parkway, 7th floor

Downers Grove, IL 60515-5799

or to such other address as the addressee may specify in a notice fully given to the sender as provided herein.

AGREED AND ACCEPTED.

Dated:

DEVRY UNIVERSITY, INC.
Scott Send email
 
Feb 23, 2012

Awful place

I attended Devry for a single semester. I realized in the second week when the bills started to arrive that something was not right. They quoted me $50, 000-$60, 000. for a 3-year bachelors program but at over $10, 000. per semester for full time at Devry, the math does not make sense!! $30, 000/Year times 3 years = $90, 000. And that's only if you finish in 3 years!! I took them to California small claims court and won a $6500. judgment against them (it is easy to do without a lawyer), but they still refuse to pay and they are holding my transcript hostage which has brought my education to a complete standstill as I had to drop out since I cannot obtain any college financing of any type, (loans or grants) until after I get Devry to release my transcript. If you are thinking about going to Devry, do some more research. You will find tons of complaints and lawsuits alleging overcharging and worthless degree value. There has been many class action suits against them and the California Department of Consumer Affairs is working on legislation to force these private colleges to realistic regulations. They are presently unregulated, even here in California whereas any real college in California is regulated by strict guidelines and business code. AVOID Devry University. Go to a real college. Especially here in California we have the best community and state college system in the country. Use it!!
Devry_ripped_me_off Send email
 
Feb 23, 2012

Awful place

I'm down for a class action lawsuit as well.

I don't want to even mention how much debt they have caused me.

Also the credits, they don't transfer, I have 98 credits from them and only 30 transferred into the new school I'm attending, granted I didn't expect all of them, as the degrees are different but, similar.

Anyway, my email is swilliams72@gmail.com please send me info if anyone is going to do a class action.
David Send email
 
Feb 23, 2012

Fraud

I was just finishing my 6th semester a DeVry, and getting ready to schedule for my 7th, when I was told one of the classes I needed would no longer be offered on campus because not enough students signed up for it, three I think. I talked to the dean of the degree I was pursing and he told me I could take the class on-line, and that online classes were easy to follow and even more well structured than their on-campus equivalents. I trusted what he said and went ahead and signed up for two online classes, one for data base programming and the other for signal processing. The first week of class when I logged I found a link to an online book I was supposed to read, and read the assigned chapters for that week. I then looked at the lecture page, and to my surprise is was no more than 250 words long. I tried emailing the professors of the respective classes to see if perhaps I was missing something or doing something wrong, but it wasn't until 2 weeks later that one emailed me back, and the other never did. After a week of not receiving a reply from either of the professors I decided to drop the class(makes it as if I never signed up for it) so that I would not be charged for it, at which point I was told I was too late, and that the class could only be dropped in the first week. In short, DeVry Online classes are a complete ripoff. The professors in the on-campus are always well prepared and cover the material with a through lecture totaling 2-3 hours a week, but the lectures for online-classes are basically non-existent. The only learning materials I was given was a book to read and whatever comments my classmates made on the class forums. If I wanted to learn by reading a book, then I wouldn't pay $3500 to some university. I basically shelled out $3500 to have DeVry recommend two books for me to read. What a ripoff.
Ashamed Of DeVry Send email
 
Feb 23, 2012

Fraud

Yes, I took quite a number of online classes. The open book tests were ridiculously easy to complete. In several "live lecture" courses, the instructor gave the entirety of the answers to the "homework", thus if you attended the teleconference-live lecture (or listened to the recording), you could screen shot the answers and submit it! Imagine my horror when at the end of the eight weeks, I found this out from a class mate who openly discussed this "fraud" in the threads.
Paul Send email
 
Feb 23, 2012

Criminals

I too was suckered into DeVry. There is this woman Beverly Smith that manipulated me into thinking that DeVry is the choice because of their reputation. Now I think back about it, what was this reputation? All I heard was reputation, I thought about it. That’s all it is, just the word reputation; they have no reputation! First and foremost, the double charged me on my application fee. They promise me that I will not be paying any money out of my pocket until I graduate. Before the first half of the semester was over, I was told I have to pay over $300 or else I cannot continue. Longer story below, shorter version here; I now have money owe to the financial aid and paying for something I cannot use! I have earned my A++, but I am not allowed to get it through DeVry because of their structure. So an education institute that is here for us, to help and make our country stronger, they rather just go piss in the wind. No wonder this country is failing, have an education system like this that allows any person that has a social security number attend. I am sorry, I am paying over $7k semester and paying out of pocket expense for books and software and only use 25% of material, and on top of that OPEN BOOK TEST??

FYI, supposedly I did a feat where it is a rare occasion. I did 3 math levels within 7 weeks and having a 98%. From math 032, 092, and 114. I was told that this was an accomplishment that never anyone wants to do. I am told this by people from DeVry, but never got recognition for it, in fact I got criticized for it, as I was expecting a prize or something. Their attitudes suck and they don’t care about you, they just care about getting federal grants and money from you so they can earn their money, unethically. Here is a school that teaches you ethics, and their ethics is like our government; “Do what I say, not what I do!”

My bad experience was choosing and going to DeVry. Talking to these people, I get better results from my dog! I ask a question, and no one is competent enough to actually have an answer, let alone trying to find that answer. What they do when they don't know they answer, they just make up stuff! Craig Jacobs is the president of DeVry Phoenix campus and as well as Martin Florez. These incompetent people are playing devils advocate in treating me like I am a criminal. I had complaints, issues, concern, etc... and none of them were ever met. So what they do is incriminate me. They take all these e-mails I sent to people that were NOT doing their job and decided to take the portion of the e-mail of me stating FACTS against them. They took it as a threat and snowball it into an unfair and unjust reasoning. They decided to WITHDRAW me from my classes. YES, WITHDRAW! I was 7 weeks into the 8 week semester and lost out of my time and credit earn because of what? I fought my way to have myself heard and all they do is incriminate me, TOOK everything I have said against me so I can no longer go to their school. Now for the reality of the situation of how surreal, to unreal it is! I had a hearing where I can be heard. Well no one wanted to listen to me, because of how I was represented by Martin Florez, the DEAN. The outcome was that I was suspended indefinitely, but was considered for re-instatement. So for me to re-instated, I am told I have to take anger management and sexual harassment classes/sessions. So I inquired about it, where do I take these courses, how long do I have to take them, do you know how much, etc... A normal question for someone that has brains and wants to understand what it is that is going on. I am told by the PRESIDENT, that for legal reasons he cannot say anything. So they can give out reprimand, but they cannot elaborate on it?

Well I didn’t like what I had to hear, especially how I have been treated. Inquired to the HQ of DeVry in Illinois and tried contacting the CEO, Daniel Hamburger. For someone that has a vision, he lacks integrity of following up with his word. Anyway, there is a woman (Kelly Wasilevich) that contacts me and says she is going to be doing an investigation of behalf of what I was complaining. After a few weeks go by, she responds to me saying the investigation is complete. Ok, I am curious about something, when were you going to ask me questions? The whole point of an investigation is to find the truth, not reevaluate how the hearing went and saying everything is in order. Of course the paperwork is in order, I am talking about what it is they are writing down is incriminating and they don’t care how I should take these classes. Kelly proceeds to tell me that I can take it on campus, this classes/session from the first hearing that the PRESIDENT said he cannot elaborate because of legal reasons and here I am told they had these classes on their campus the WHOLE TIME! Well I guess that entered me into a second hearing, but this second hearing was worse than the second one. Martin Florez over talk me on whatever I say. I speak, and then he would “clarify” to the panel in his words. I kept telling him to STOP doing that, and says no. What he doesn’t realize what it is he is doing, he is justify himself to like the good guy from this situation and me looking like the bad guy. It is all on tape!

To me that says a lot more about this school, than it does about me. The whole time I wanted to better myself, and I thought I would choose DeVry, but I never knew that an institute with this much reputation would do something like, let alone GET AWAY WITH IT! THEY ARE CRIMINALS! I am still in process of contacting Daniel Hamburger, leaving him voicemails.
Ashamed Of DeVry Send email
 
Feb 23, 2012

Criminals

Your frustration is painful to witness. I am aware of many such complaints and sadly, they don't get too far. DeVry's legal staff is likely to squelch your angst with a little payoff if your attorney demands it. They will give you a couple grand to hide the sins. You will need to sign a waiver and non-disclosure statement. This is how they avoid notice by the accreditation groups. If they can bribe - no, I meant to say, if they can "resolve" - your issue with no acknowledgement of guilt, then the conspiracy -- oops, I meant to say "issue" is put to bed. As I mentioned, I feel your frustration... and I did not sign any silencing agreement but was offered one.

When we get a law that requires the arbitration and non-disclosure payoffs (oops... "agreements") to be TRANSPARENT and PUBLIC domain, then we will have a different ethical climate at the for-profit educators. Write your representatives in Congress and the Department of Education as well as your State Representatives. Something must be done to contain this. Thanks.
Phil2009 Send email
 
Feb 23, 2012

Unethical Business Practices

Today I withdrew from DeVry University Online classes. I'm sad to have had to do that because I had great hopes for my education, but a series of issues arose that convinced me DeVry is not as concerned about their students' education as they are about their cash flow.

The first issue concerns their transfer scholarship. I began talking to DeVry in earnest Dec '08 and was told I was eligible for the scholarship ; the requirements are 1 year since graduation and 3.20 or higher GPA. I graduated in June '08 with a 3.92 GPA. I started classes in March '09, and by May I still hadn't heard if I was going to get the scholarship even though I had asked about it every few weeks since January. Each time I was told no word yet. I began to suspect the scholarship was merely a carrot on a stick and they were running out the clock until I was no longer eligible for it, and I told them that's what I had begun to think.

A short time later one of the academic advisors called and told me I had been awarded the scholarship. Then he informed me I would need to take some placement exams for math by the end of the semester. These were 3 remedial math courses that began with an introduction to fractions up through graphing quadratic equations. Nothing had been said about placement exams for math classes until that day, just one breath away from congratulating me on my scholarship. I had been given full credit for the algebra and physics classes I had taken previously, so I was a little surprised to hear I would need to be tested on addition and subtraction of fractions.

I asked why I needed to take the tests, and the advisor said it was because my upcoming computer programming courses required a lot of math. I checked the text books and discovered that wasn't true - there's no real math requirement for learning C++ or Java. Later, when I told him this, he suddenly changed the reason and said it was because some of my credits didn't transfer. His explanation was that the screen I was looking at didn't show the same information as the screen he was looking at, although we were looking at the same screen. If I didn't take the placement exams within two weeks all 3 classes would be required. If I scored high enough I wouldn't need to take that particular class, and I would be allowed to retake the test one time if I failed an exam.

When the results came back he told me I had scored so low I would have to take all 3 classes. I wasn't allowed to know the test score, or which problems were missed. Now anyone who has bought a car from a shady dealer will instantly recognize this trick: they'll tell the customer they'll agree to throw in a free high-powered stereo if he'll buy the car, then they'll jack up the interest rate on the loan a few points.

I told my advisor I thought this was what they were doing and would retake the test, only this time I would be recording every question and answer by screen capture. The next results showed I needed to take only the last class. I didn't contest this because it seemed like a good idea for a review anyway, as I had missed 3 questions.

The next issue was my instructor in Comp 122. He was AWOL most of the course in the discussion area until students began pleading with him to answer their questions. And if you asked him a question he would never answer it directly - he'd give you an answer that has nothing to do with the question. For example: I asked about question 3 in Chapter 6, and he responded with the answer to question 1 in Chapter 5, with no explanation. There didn't seem to be any connection between the two questions, and when I realized the problem it had nothing to do with the procedure I was using - I had made a syntax error.

The third issue is what I consider the most egregious, and ultimately the one that convinced me DeVry has little concern for the education of their students as opposed to their great concern for a steady cash flow from student loans. Two computer programming classes, Comp 122 and Comp 220, use the same book: C++ Programming - From Problem Analysis to Programming Design, 4th edition, by D.S. Malik. At the end of each chapter are several pages of exercises, including programming exercises that require the student to put to practice the programming principles taught in that chapter. The book instructs students to ask their instructor for the source code solutions to the problems if they wish to use it. I asked for the code from the instructor in Comp 122 and was given a list of answers to true/false, fill in the blank, and multiple choice questions that are already given in the back of the book. After repeated requests, the instructor eventually posted a few solutions in the discussion are.

At the beginning of Comp 220 I emailed the new instructor and again asked for the source code. Here's the text of the actual email:

"Hello Mr. ******, nice to see you have practical experience using programming in real world applications. I'm continuing from Comp 122 and would like to know your position on use of the programming exercises at the end of each chapter. The previous instructor would not release the code, but later after discussions with the staff of DVUO he began to post some in the discussion areas. I hope you recognize the value of using programming exercises such as the ones in the back of the chapters, whether they're the exact problems or equivalent problems generated from scratch. I would like access to some of the code whether they're from the book or another source to practice using the theory taught in the class. I will, of course, respect and abide by your decision, but I'd like to know in advance so I can make arrangements if necessary to ensure I'm understanding the material sufficiently to work any of the problems in the programming exercises."

His reply: "Its (sic) a great idea to work through the exercises at the end of (a) chapter. I'll be posting the exercise solutions for the chapters we will be studying in the next day or two. Good to hear from you...Let me know if you have any other questions!"

What he posted was another set of answers to true/false, fill in the blank, multiple choice questions whose answers are already in the back of the book. Notice I asked for source code and he replied with answers that we already have to true/false, fill in the blank, and multiple choice questions. Could it be that an instructor in a computer programming class doesn't know the difference between source code and answers to true/false questions?

After several exchanges back and forth pretending he didn't know what I was asking for, he admitted the following:

"I was in on the conversation about this last term and it came down to a question of copyright infringement. The acceptable use policy for the instructor materials prohibits electronically posting of answer keys to a publicly accessible location; which make sense because the book company does not want the answers freely given out because it spoils the value of the book for instructors that assign and grade exercises from the book. In the case of DeVry, they decided that we could post the answer keys, in part, because we are not 'publicly accessible.'

I have no problem providing the solutions...the best way to learn this material is to study and copy programs that work...

I've checked out the webpage for our book and they do have a link for instructor materials but I need to call and create an account. Its (sic) a tad late so I'll call in the morning.

I'll keep you posted..."

So he had been in the meeting the previous session where, according to him, the publisher decided DeVry could post the source code, and then he states he supports letting students use the source code- even though he'd been refusing to provide it for 6 weeks, and then only after repeated requests on my part to have access to it. And according to the book, the source code is on the Teaching Tools CD-ROM that the instructor has.

August 19th I complained to a faculty staff member about the situation who then researched this issue and was told yesterday or today the following by a member of the online training faculty office:

"Programming exercise solutions and source code are only for the instructors, not for the students. We are not able to distribute any instructor information to the students. DeVry is not the only institution that uses this text, and we would be compromising the use of any quizzes or exams if we were to give this information out. "

Here's the gist of this whole sordid mess: the solutions to the programming exercises that the publisher says are available to the students through the instructor are off limits to DeVry students because DeVry says they're only for instructors' use. The stated reason is that students might send the source code to students of other schools that use the programming examples for homework (DeVry does not use the programming examples for homework or tests). So DeVry is more worried about other schools' homework than they are about their own students (who are paying $550/credit hr, over $60, 000 for a bachelor degree), even though there's nothing preventing students in other schools giving out the very same source code.

I don't believe that explanation. It makes more sense that they don't want students doing too well because then the number of students having to repeat a class would drop off, and so would their income from student loans.
If you want to go to the website for the book I'm talking about and see the notice to students to get the source code from the instructor, go here:

http://oc.course.com/computerscience/malikcpp4e/index.cfm?page=source

To be fair, most of the people I have come into contact with at DeVry are conscientious, considerate, friendly and professional. I don't have a problem with the people, it's the culture and/or the business ethic that allows a company such as DeVry to put revenue above all else. I'm not going to suggest you do or do not hire DeVry to educate you, but if you do there are some things you should be aware of.

When I withdrew today I had a 4.0 GPA, so my dissatisfaction is not because of grades - it's because I could not justify putting all the time and money ahead of me into an organization that refuses to give their students basic tools that the author of the book has spent considerable time creating. And because they refuse to be forthcoming and honest until forced to do so. Every time I was on the phone about that source code issue it made me feel like I would feel if I was on a sidewalk standing still as a pickpocket went through my pants.

I can be reached at phillip.1955@yahoo.com
Holly142 Send email
 
Feb 23, 2012

Unethical Business Practices

By all means, get some legal advice with this cheeseball university! I also attended DeVry & with similar reasons as yours, intend to sue for fraud.

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